And Wingnuttia replies…

Remember the other day we mentioned that Rand Paul was asked a question about overthrowing the government, and his campaign staff pulled him away? Me neither! But anyway, we got a live one in the comments, and I thought it might be instructive to post it up front. (And for the record, I did not let this one through moderation.)

The answer to that question is yes.


we have the constitutional right and civic DUTY to violently overthrow the government if they, you know, bail out banks with out our consent, take our jobs oversees, imprison us for nonviolent crimes, use secret service agencies to spy on us and our peaceful and lawful gatherings. Then yes.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants

i know later in life he distance himself from this statement, but he still said it. in fact he also said:

For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well organized and armed militia is their best security.

and this:

Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of the day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers (adminstrators) too plainly proves a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to slavery.

and this:

We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our calling and our creeds…[we will] have no time to think, no means of calling our miss-managers to account but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers… And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for[ another]… till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery… And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression.

and finally:

The system of banking [is] a blot left in all our Constitutions, which, if not covered, will end in their destruction… I sincerely believe that banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity… is but swindling futurity on a large scale.

OK, for the record, MPS and myself, we do NOT advocate overthrowing the government, violently or otherwise. We understand the anger and the frustration and we have discussed some of these finer points raised by the commentator for years.

That said, we live in a democratic republic, we do not live in a pure democracy. We do not vote directly on anything, we elect people to represent us. If you do not like the job that your representative is doing, vote against that person, and elect someone you do like. My sense on the commentator’s frustration is that it should be directed at his or her political party, not at the government itself. But this is what happens after 30 years of Trickle-down, Welfare for Billionaires and the institutionalization of Corporate Power: the little guy, from whom all their power is derived, gets screwed. Thank’s big bunches Saint Ronnie!

To sum it up, we need to change the players, we need to change the rules, but we do not need to change the game itself.

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0 Responses to And Wingnuttia replies…

  1. sachem says:

    If we’d behaved this way while dubya was guttin’ da const’tution we would have seen the security apparatus slam us against the nearest wall. But those were just weapons on mass delusion after all.

    Nothing to see here. Keep moving.


  2. libhomo says:

    If the Paulentologists really hate government debt so much, they should support making the rich pay their fair share in taxes.


  3. B8ovin says:

    Tyranny and tyrants. Oh for the good old days of the 16th century when good guys wore blue and the bad guys wore red. Does the quotating author believe for one second that what we have now is a government of TYRANNY? We have a tyranny all right, but it is one of ignorance and apathy, of historical revisionism and populist hysteria. Instead of trying to solve problems the author, like so many tea baggers and Paulists is trying to overthrow modern society with the nirvana of their political schematic. Instead of railing at the morons who would rather boo Simon when he’s “mean” or misuse words like “marxist” or “fascist”, it’s the big bad democratically elected government we need to chop down for the “Tree of Liberty” (thanks for the analogy, but seriously, I GET it now). I can play the quote game too, “People get the government they deserve.” When people watch the news outlet of the second biggest media company in the WORLD and tell me they only watch FOX NEWS because it isn’t the Main Stream Media, I get that same “down with the tyranny” feeling, except my tyranny is the tyranny of mediocrity that leads people to feel half assed about their responsibilities while going full throated against a government they elected.


  4. It’s odd how late in the game these teabaggers and wingnutters have waited to start their bloody revolution over government spending and debt, isn’t it? I mean, when the Repubs were squandering Clinton’s surplus they didn’t squeal like piggies caught in the trough, they just lapped it up and grunted approvingly. Now that the prez has a slightly different pigmentation and his name is harder for them to find on a can of beans at the store they suddenly start channeling dead Founding Fathers? Yep, they’re a funny lot to watch. And watch them we shall… When the sad day finally comes when (not if) one of these deluded troglodytes actually brings harm to our duly elected president, or decides to park a moving van full of fertilizer in front of a courthouse, we should remember these cheerleading pricks and hold them accountable.
    They don’t deserve rational rebuttal, but rather close and prudent scrutiny from the folks who keep eyes and ears on those who brag about their seditious intent.
    If ignorance is bliss, this guy ought to be the happiest squirrel in the tree…


  5. Dimitrios says:

    Dear Patriotic Mutineer,

    As a viewer from the outside, please allow me advise you that my reply to your “Yes” is “Bullshit!”

    As a citizen of the United States you have the civic right and duty to question the decisions of your leaders, to vocally question their actions if you oppose them, and to convince them to change those decisions through debate.

    When that fails, to work for the election of a representative who supports your opinion. If your candidate fails to receive a majority of the votes, to continue voicing your objections in the hope that you might persuade the representative who did get elected to find a compromise which, if not ideal, both you and he can support.

    If even compromise is to no avail, you may still comfort yourself that you live in a democracy where the majority of voters have chosen differently from you, and if you are proven correct, you have every right to tell them so.

    On the other hand, you have no right or duty to overthrow the government through any means other than the ballot box. If you resort to other methods – conspiracy, sabotage, intimidation or violence – or if you merely encourage others to do so, you are guilty of sedition, at the least, or possibly treason.

    For the record, by preaching violent overthrow of your government, you have made a sham of every pledge of allegiance you ever made to your flag. Further, you have stripped yourself of all honour, and become the antithesis of a patriot.

    And then there’s Thomas Jefferson.

    You quote Jefferson’s eighteenth century theories of economics as a yardstick for today’s governance. Would you also suggest the US military confine itself to the use of Baron von Steubenfield’s “The Regulations for the Order and Discipline of the Troops of the United States,” which was the Continental Army’s field manual?

    Finally, to quote Dylan paraphrasing Lincoln, “Some of the people can be all right part of the time, and all of the people can be part right some of the time, but all of the people can’t be all right all of the time.” Not even Thomas Jefferson!

    If you have actually studied Thomas Jefferson, and not cherry-picked a handful of quotes, you will recall that brfore 1812 Jefferson counselled James Munroe that to win the war they must invade Canada, an objective whose accomplishment would be “a mere matter of marching.”

    As a Canadian, living in a Canada that successfully repulsed several invasions and attempted invasions throughout the course of that war, let me assure you that Thomas Jefferson was thoroughly and incontestably wrong.

    Jefferson was also wrong about the Tree of Liberty. The best fertilizer for the Tree of Liberty is not blood. And neither is it bullshit.

    You ought to be ashamed of yourself.


  6. Padre Mickey says:

    I think that the lessons we learned in Iraq are: invade everyone with which we disagree.